25. Fear, FOBU, and Finding the Courage to Say Yes

If you’ve ever made a big, bold decision and then immediately thought, What the heck did I just do?!—this one’s for you.

In this episode of No Cape Required, I’m joined by Sherry Yellin, an executive coach and leadership expert who shares the story of how a $35,000 investment (gulp!) completely changed the trajectory of her life and business.

From sitting on her office floor paralyzed by fear to leading with confidence and clarity, Sherry takes us behind the scenes of what real transformation looks like—and spoiler alert: it’s not always pretty.

We talk about:

• The neuroscience behind fear and why your brain resists change (not growth!)
• FOBU: Fear of Being Uncomfortable, Uncertain, or Unpopular—and how to overcome it
• How tunnel vision in your brain keeps you stuck (and how to get out of it)
• Simple tools that re-activate your decision-making power when you feel frozen
• Why investing in yourself isn’t just powerful—it’s generational

Sherry reminds us that fear isn’t the enemy—it’s a signal. And if we’re willing to move through discomfort, that’s where the magic and growth really happens.

Whether you're at a crossroads in your career or quietly wondering what’s next for me?, this episode will give you the clarity—and the courage—you need to take the next right step.

You can learn more about Sherry Yellin on her website or connect with her on LinkedIn

Download 10 Ways to Shed Your Superwoman Cape

Dr. Dara would love to connect.
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Transcript

Dara Rossi: Welcome to No Cape Required, the podcast where we talk about strategies to help women live and lead authentically and share insights that really help you thrive and work and life both. Today we're talking about the power of professional coaching, something very near and dear to my heart. I've been a coach for over eight years, professionally coached, before that, before I was ICF certified. And why? Having a coach isn't just for executives, but really for anyone, I think, who's looking to grow, to lead, to succeed anywhere. From gaining clarity to your goals to boosting confidence and really navigating career transitions. A great coach can provide you with guidance, accountability, and really the tools that help you unlock your full potential. So if you've ever wondered how coaching can transform your journey, stay tuned because this is the episode for you. I'm your host, Dara Rossi, and today you're going to hear a moving and motivational story from our guest, Sherry Yellin. And you're going to learn about the power of coaching. And by the way, I think you're going to love her energy. Sherry Yellin specializes in equipping leaders to be extraordinary through innovative learning and coaching solutions. She's got a PhD in cognitive learning and she uses evidence-based learning from neuroscience. Gosh, we love to geek out on that here on this show as a foundation for her work in coaching and leadership development. Now she has more than 22 years of experience. She's recognized as an expert in leadership, learning solutions and executive development. She's the author of Unforgettable Leadership, seven Principals for Leading Learning and Living. And she's the founder and facilitator of the Leading Lab, which is a mastermind group of international multidisciplined leaders from across various industries. And they meet monthly to discuss challenges and share best practices. Sherry, I'm so glad that we have finally made it to this interview. Let, me just tell you, we have had challenges like crazy schedules, late miss flights, storms. the last time I talked to Sherry, she, her electricity was out and she still was able to jump on a call with me. We moved from zoom to phone calls and we finally got it. So I'm happy to say welcome to no K required.

Sherry Yellin: Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Dara Rossi: Yeah, well, I, you know, I said that you have this moving and motivational story and I think we should start there and just talk about what that is.

Sherry Yellin: Sherry, I'm excited to share, especially with this audience and what you're doing here, and I think I'm Such an advocate for coaching. Not only because we see it, you and I see it in our professional world, but I've experienced the power of coaching personally. So I started my company in 2001, which seems like forever, ago. And it was really something that I loved, but it wasn't my full focus. I was raising kids, I homeschooled my kids and was really trying to keep a family together. married to a very successful addict I would say. But if you've ever lived in that world, it's a very tumultuous road, I guess if you would walk. And so Fast forward, it's 2014 and I find myself at the end of nearly 25-year marriage and I've got a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old and I'm completely starting over and I'm self-employed. And I remember the moment when I was literally on the floor in my office just frozen in fear of how am I going to provide for them, how am I going to, you know, I knew they were entering the most expensive and the most challenging years of life and it proved to be so. And I'm self-employed and I'm by myself and I just remember starting to pray, show me what I can't see. Because like your audience and you, you know, I can read more if I need to. I can get up earlier, I can stay up later. I don't mind doing the work, but I just couldn't see what I couldn't see. And my first reaction was a fear, definitely a fear-based reaction to just go get a quote unquote normal job where I can be employed. And you know, sometimes that feels like security. But you and I both know that's just a feeling of security. But you are your security. And I interviewed for a position actually and I was on this interview and I asked why was the person leaving that was opened up the vacancy? And he said she wants to go start her own business. She wants to be a Sherry Yellin. And it was a moment where I realized, oh my goodness, why, why would I give this up? Because I knew that I was called to do what I do and I was willing to abandon that out of fear. And so I just went back to really that prayer of show me what I can't see. And a friend of mine invited me to a training. It was a three-hour training on a Friday and I'm the person doing it was actually a business coach. And the minute he started talking I knew that's the person that I needed to work with. And so we set up a call for a Tuesday morning. And when we're on the call and I'm sharing, these are my goals and I can tell, you know, he's listening, he gets a, where I want to go and really talking through what happens if I don't reach these goals. Well, I couldn't live with that, you know, and then so I just knew that's who I needed to work with until he said, and the investment for that will be $35,000. How would you like to pay for it and then freeze, you know, and Gulp. Exactly. But here's the thing that we know, and I definitely know personally, is that if nothing changes, nothing changes. And sometimes taking that risk is going to be expensive, it might be inconvenient, it's going to be scary as hell, potentially. So I said yes. And just a little bit more to that story was pretty interesting because in between the Friday and the Tuesday, I'd gotten a couple of names of people that he had worked with and I'REACHED out to them on LinkedIn and I didn’t know, I didn't know one of them in particular. And so after I said yes and I made the commitment to work with somebody for 12 years, for 30, I mean 12 months, for $35,000 for that year. I went to bed that night feeling so good that I had made this investment in myself. But I woke up in the morning, like at 5am, straight out of bed, panic, trouble breathing, thinking, oh my gosh, what have I just done? I've just given $35,000 to somebody I've known for three hours and a stranger, a stranger essentially. And I reached over to my phone to see what time it was and one of those people had messaged me back on LinkedIn and I could just see the top portion of the response and it read, you've just made one of the best decisions of your life. And it was, it was such a divine moment because it was almost like, go to sleep, like, we've got this. And over the course of that year, it really was a turnaround. And I think about, I guess most importantly, what if I hadn't said yes to that? what if I'd continued to operate out of a place of fear and all the things that I would have missed because, you know, now we're fast forward. I had a 26-year-old and a 24-year-old and not only was I able to provide for them, but in ways and experiences and adventures that I never thought possible and a Coach was such a critical part of that story for all the reasons you just mentioned, the accountability. But just having someone hold a big belief for you when you haven't quite really owned that belief yourself, someone to bring in new perspectives to challenge your thinking. Because our thoughts lie. And even though something feels true doesn't make it true.

Dara Rossi: We believe it too. When those thoughts lie to us, we believe it and think it's real.

Sherry Yellin: We absolutely believe it. And sometimes just what you're saying around beliefs, one new belief can open up a whole new world. And one of the things that I recognized early on was this misalignment of beliefs and, you know, recognizing that I don't believe what's possible. In the same way, this coach, holds this belief for me. And I know many times throughout the. Definitely the first six months, while we were reorganizing some of the business and restructuring and the things that felt so scary to me and almost impossible to me, he would say to me, borrow my belief until you can develop your own. Oh, I love that.

Dara Rossi: Right? Ye tell coaches. I mean, as coaches, we don't usually, I'm sorry, let me speak for me. I don't tell my clients that. I just keep cheering them on, let them know we got this. We got this together. We're in partnership. Right. I keep holding them up. You know, you just talked about, like, I see this roller coaster. You know, you're in this sphere of, let me just take a job. I got. I've got to be secure, and I've got teenagers. And then we want to take that and think it's secure. Yet inside of us, that's not where we need to be. That's not the true dream. That's not what we know what we're led to do. So you had that aha ah moment in there when. When the interviewer said that to you. And then you go and you go to this business coach on a Friday, three hours on a Friday. Who does that? Right? Some more intervention there. So you're here listening to it. You're thinking, okay, I'm gonna do this. I feel good about it. You go to sleep and you wake up in a full panic. You moved from fear to full panic almost. It sounds like you're just hyperventilating. And then you get this message that you've made the best decision in your life. When did you truly know that? When did. You're like, okay, this was the best decision.

Sherry Yellin: Well, not at the beginning. Things got worse before they got better.

Dara Rossi: Wait a Minute we're going to hire a coach so things get worse before they get better.

Sherry Yellin: Better. And I think about it some. I mentioned, you know, you know, my daughter now is in college. She plays college softball. And it reminds me a lot of anytime they change their batting or their swing, you know, usually their stats go down before they start to go up. And that was definitely true because you're making changes, you're moving into the unknown. We were restructuring a lot of things, and I was learning a lot of things. And so that first three months, maybe even six months, there were times where I was thinking, is this really gonna work? But after definitely about that midpoint, about that six months, everything turned around. And it's one of those great reminders that 90% of the work is usually before you start to see the results. You know, it's like if you've got a thousand steps that you have to take, 90% of the effort is gonna be in the first maybe six or seven hundred steps.

Dara Rossi: And getting started.

Sherry Yellin: Yes

Dara Rossi: Sometimes it's those first ten steps.

Sherry Yellin: Yes. and it's like, you know, you think about when you're trying to get people to adopt a new idea, a large group of people, you're probably not gonna see the adoption of the idea, for maybe 70 to 80% of that effort. And then everything, you know, improves exponentially. The key is that most people quit before they hit that pivot point where you start to see the increases.

Dara Rossi: It's uncomfortable, right? I was just working with. Yeah, I was just working with, I work with new coaches. And so I was mentoring a new coach, and we're having a conversation about her coaching recording that we're listening to. And she said, well, I just, I don't want to make them uncomfortable. Right. I want to make it so comfortable for them. I said, wait a minute, Time out. Change is uncomfortable, right? If you want true transformation, there's going to be some uncomfortable parts you got to get through. Right. Because we're taking a look at ourselves and how we run our business and what we're thinking or, you know, how we run our lives. So a little bit of that's kind of like, wait a minute, this is not just all roses here.

Sherry Yellin: It is not. And today, so fast forward. Happily married to the most wonderful man on the planet. And we work together. He's also a coach, and we use this term FOBU. You've heard of FOMO, but we talk about F O B U, which is the fear of being uncomfortable or the fear of being uncertain or the fear of being unpopular. And if we can overcome FOBU, the fear of uncertainty, the fear of discomfort, the fear of not being liked, all great things are on the other side of that. But you have to know it is gonna show up. And it is going to feel real. Everything in your body says it's real. It's gonna be scary, it's gonna be daunting, potentially might be expensive, but we can, if we can really learn to manage FOBU right.

Dara Rossi: I'm still on that, by the way, just so you know.

Sherry Yellin: You know. And here's the thing. You can continue to fight it. I don't know if you're ever done with it, because isn't that the growth journey, though? It's always next level, next level, next level. And I think about when Covid hit being a speaker, a coach, all those things that we were doing in person prior on March 12th of that year, I had lots of free time. My entire calendar clear in the first two hours of March 12th. And it was. I went into that place back right, that fear, the scarcity. What are we go going toa do? But the key was I stayed there less time than I did last time. And instead I thought, what could we be doing for our clients now that we might not ever have another opportunity to do? And we put together a six parts series, webinar series, because everybody was at home. And we called up all of our clients and said, we want to do this for you for free. We just want to help you right now. And that's what everybody needed. But it was if I had stayed in that uncertainty and that fear and that place of scarcity, be it then or now or, you know, and continue. Life continues to throw you opportunities so you can practice it again and again and again. But it's just recognizing that that's not a bad thing. Like, discomfort is not bad. It's something that if we would lean into it and get curious and figure out what's the lesson, how is this leveling me up rather than setting me.

Dara Rossi: Back, holding me down? Yeah, you bring up a great point. And I don't know if you find this to be true, but a majority of my clients, fear is usually the number one emotion that is holding them back from doing something. The next great thing, the next move, the next career, the next, whatever it may be, following their dream, writing the book, whatever it is, it's. There's fee there for many reasons, right? But that's the one thing. It's like, how do you lean into that and just do it anyway. Be afraid and do it anyway. Right. Because it gets you where you need to be. That fearfulness really can be a barrier to get us where we want to be.

Sherry Yellin: Yeah. So from a brain perspective, which is like you, I've been studying this for almost 30 years. And it's an interesting thing because when your brain is under threat, or you know, a negative threat, so that's real important. Negative threat usually has three characteristics. There's uncertainty or some level of confusion. So you know, your brain really doesn't resist change. Your brain resists uncertainty and confusion. We don't feel like we have a lot of choice or control like it's being done to us and we don't have a lot of voice in it. That's a second characteristic. And the third characteristic is that we are anticipating a negative or adverse consequence, which most of us are really, really good at. So you put those three ingredients together and what you get is negative threats. Obviously, some threat is good. It keeps us alert and alive. But negative threat. At this point, everybody's read something about the prefrontal cortex. That's the part of your brain that allows you to see the next choice and think ahead and plan and have willpower and all those things. Well, if we were looking at imaging of your brain when your brain's under negative threat, that part of your brain is essentially shut down.

Sherry Yellin: Very little activity. And what happens is your peripheral vision when you're under threat narrows. So physically, externally, your vision narrows so you can focus on the thing that's threatening you. But what we have to recognize is that the same thing is happening internally. Your options, your brain just goes into this tunnel and it literally can't see options. Another valuable reason to have someone in your life that recognizes you're in the tunnel and can start asking you questions to help you start generating options. Because. So when you feel that you can actually hear it in people. So one of the things that we'll pick up on is when people are under threat, they start talking in terms of either or m. Either I stay in a job that I hate or stay in an environment that's toxic or I, whatever, you know, there's move to Europe and you know, one easy strategy is just when you find yourself there, is to put either on one end of the continuum and or on the other and then just see how many options you can generate. And so you can literally feel a shift start to happen in your body because threat is decreasing the quickest ways to. When your prefrontal cortex is deactivated, some of the quickest ways to turn it back on. one is gratitude. What's the gift in this? What are all the things that I can now do that I might not otherwise be able to do? What's the gift in this? Another one is to think forward, you know, to set goals, to think about what you want instead of where you are right now. But a third, quickest way is to simply start generating options. And I know you probably love Michael Bungay Staner, too. He wrote oh, yes, the coaching habit. But he says it's the AWE question. The AWE = and what else? And what else and what else and what else and what else? The more options you can generate, the more that tunnel starts to disappear. Your body, you can literally feel a shift. And it's, you know, if we could remember that faster next time than we did last time, then we stay out of the tunnel, because you're going to go into the tunnel. We're human, you know, we're going to be fearful and all those things. But it's about, how can I reframe that faster? And what are some different questions I can start asking faster? And just even acknowledging what's happening, just recognizing it's not a bad thing. It's my body and my brain stepping up to do what it's supposed to do. Anxiety is not necessarily a negative thing. It's giving me feedback that my body's doing what it's supposed to do, which should be encouraging, because if it's doing that, it can do something else too.

Dara Rossi: You know, so you want to get to regulation pretty quick, and I love that. and what else could be true when they're like, either he's gonna fire me, I'm gonna quit. Well, what else could be true? As coaches, we tend to help people start to use that so they move quicker through that process. So when you're talking about that, what came to mind? I was thinking like, some people think, what do I need to coach? Can I just ask my husband that? Or my sister? They'll help me walk through this and uncover my thinking. Why do I need to pay a coach? I've got somebody I can talk to. What's your thoughts around that? Probably the same as mine, but go ahead and share.

Sherry Yellin: again, I want to take it back to my own experience because I thought I had been coaching for many years, and I was applying to for, a contract. it was a federal contract, and it required me to have an official ICF certification, the International Coach Federation certification. And I thought, how many more initials do I need behind my name? I've been coaching, but okay, if I've got to go get this, I guess I'll go get it. So arrogantly, I signed up for coach training just for to get this certification. First 30 minutes. First 30 minutes was a punch to the gut. I realized I'JUST been giving people a bunch of advice.

Dara Rossi: Yeah. How many people do you want to go apologize to every client you ever had?

Sherry Yellin: I had not been coaching at all. And just recognizing how coaches are so trained to listen for way more than they're listening to. With a whole toolbox of strategies that can help you get unstuck. And an entirely different belief system.

Sherry Yellin: Than a consultant or a good friend or a family member. And you know, one of the reasons why even as a trained coach, we don't coach our friends and our family members. Because it's bias. I cannot look past my bias. And just because someone loves you doesn't mean they give you good advice.

Dara Rossi: Yeah. And that's what they want to do, is give you advice.

Sherry Yellin: So their own lens. And not recognizing that you are the expert of you and you have it in you. All I need to do is use those trained skills to help you discover it and hopefully get you there faster.

Dara Rossi: Oh, gosh, I love that. Yeah. The advice monster. That's, Michael Bungay Stainner's other book is the Advice Monster and how coaches work hard to avoid falling in that trap. Right. Of giving advice. So that's usually what our family members do or friends or whatever. What have we not talked about that our listeners need to know about? Working with a coach or how to get started or anything else that you want to share. And by the way, do you. Are you still working with a coach? Surely not. I mean, that was 2014.

Sherry Yellin: Working with the same coach.

Dara Rossi: That was a little facetious because I know you're working with a coach. Right. But that's what people thinking like, well, just, you know, one and done. She did it 12 months and she's good. And for some people that may work. But what I find, and I know you hold to be true too, is that really good coaches have coaches because we believe in it. Right. We are, we're, you know, practicing what we preach, so to speak, that this is something that really works.

Sherry Yellin: and so now I have a business coach, but I also have a health and wellness coach. Because both of those are similar in the fact that you are, you're retraining. Behavior, you're retraining habit, you retraining beliefs. And if we ever stop doing that, we default. You know, we default to our old ways. another way I think about that is with a sports team, even when they win, even if they win the super bowl or whatever their, you know, final championship is, they don't stop practicing. They're gonna go back on Monday and go right back to the fundamentals day after day after day. That's a big part of working with a coach, is recognizing it's deep work. It's not an overnight fix, but it is not a cost. It is an investment. It is an investment in you and future generations, my generations from now will be impacted by the decisions that I'm making for myself today. And taking that at the organizational level, your most expensive and your most profitable asset is not the new piece of technology that you just implemented. It's this three pound technology that your people are carrying in and out of work every single day. And there's one thing is happening. We're either developing that and helping it grow, or it's defaulting into places of fear and scarcity. And it's just the human experience. So one thing I would say is recognizing it's deep work, it's work that's never done.

Dara Rossi: And sometimes it's uncomfortable.

Sherry Yellin: And sometimes it's uncomfortable. Exactly. And you know what? It probably should be because that's the only way that we're growing. And, it's just been transformational for me personally, for my business and for my clients that, you know, that I've worked with in the past, I'm working with now and future clients. These things are investments, and we've got to see it as am I willing to make that investment? Because the returns of that investment, to me are generational.

Dara Rossi: I love that, you know, coaching is about the future, right? Investments are usually about the future. They're not. You're not investing right now to make money, you know, tomorrow. You're investing to see some return on that in the future. And that's the way coaches frame it. Right. We're, we're forward moving to move you to where you want to be, to be the best you can be. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Anything else, Sherry? This has been delightful. Thank you so much for sharing. But is there anything else that you want toa leave our audience with?

Sherry Yellin: Just a reminder that I think that I'm a big believer in really tapping into what's the best version of you? what are you being called to next, and you're worth the investment of saying yes to that. And I just want to encourage these listeners to do that, even if. Especially if it's uncomfortable and it feels scary. But to take that step and not settle.

Dara Rossi: Don't settle. I love that we're gonna leave it at that. Don't settle. Sherry, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a pleasure to have you on and hear your story and, talk a little bit about coaching and how it can benefit not just those that are on their office floor crying, not knowing what was re going to do, to those that are just stuck and needing to move to the next level or to move to a different place. So, the benefits are there for all. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Sherry Yellin: Thank you. Appreciate all that you're doing.

Dara Rossi: Thank you.